The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Weekly reports of Modmin actions, decisions etc.
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The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Jay » 12 Mar 2015, 09:24

The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March


Warnings:

LaSerpentaCanta

The following posts were reported: viewtopic.php?f=7&p=4029203#p4029203 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030126#p4030126 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030329#p4030329 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030338#p4030338 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030344#p4030344 of which some or all contributed to a warning.

1st warning issued for: displaying a bad attitude, spreading negativity, and for trolling behaviour. Advised to read the Behaviour on the forums - The roots of DenDen thread. Informed that if current behaviour continues, a ban would be an inevitable consequence. (12 Mar 2015)

2nd warning issued for the following post: viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030433#p4030433

Bans:

Dreamless

The following posts were reported: viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4027485#p4027485 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4027501#p4027501 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4027651#p4027651 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4027726#p4027726 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4029724#p4029724 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030377#p4030377 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030421#p4030421 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030499#p4030499 | viewtopic.php?f=4&p=4030505#p4030505 of which some or all contributed to 3 warnings & a subsequent ban.

1st warning issued for: unacceptable & defamatory language towards a user. (24 Feb 2015)
2nd warning issued for: persistent unacceptable & hurtful language, and trolling. (24 Feb 2015)
3rd warning issued for: another instance of writing unacceptable things about another member. (12 Mar 2015)
Banned for: receiving 3 warnings (12 Mar 2015)
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby FiaSpice » 12 Mar 2015, 20:45

yay! :dee:
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I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 02:53

I don't think it is a good thing to ban LaSerpentaCunta & Dreamless

At the end of the day, these are public forums and they are stating their opinions. Were the warnings for people's harassment really that bad?
In a way, I get it that if you break the rules your membership should be put in question, but I believe that as a forum we should have tried better.

Yes, they are annoying and sometimes plain rude. But they are just naggers, all we had to do would be to avoid them, ignore them or simply reply when we felt like we had to. And call for their attention when they were out of line. I trust that if this was the case eventually they would come around or at least pipe down.

I am not very up to getting people banned without working with them first to see if they might find a way to fit in better. It just seems a bit extreme and last-resort sort of thing.

Who hasn't been warned about bed behaviour before, throw the first stone. But exclusion isn't the solution.

:shrug:
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby kamel » 13 Mar 2015, 03:34

Only Dreamless was banned
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 03:36

Still.
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby kamel » 13 Mar 2015, 03:43

Im glad he was banned :satan: :devil: :p
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby PeruvianSpice » 13 Mar 2015, 03:48

Well, it's not like "just ignore them" cause there are rules to be followed and they (or one of them) broke them...

They could dislike one of the girls, but they were just being rude and many people felt uncomfortable
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 03:48

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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby Loveless » 13 Mar 2015, 04:13

PeruvianSpice wrote:Well, it's not like "just ignore them" cause there are rules to be followed and they (or one of them) broken them...

They could dislike one of the girls, but they were just being rude and many people felt uncomfortable
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby daredavid » 13 Mar 2015, 04:22

I don't post much here but I read denden constantly and I found Dreamless' posts kinda funny. I mean, they could have been offensive, but I think they were just playing around. Let's face it, for better or for worse, LaSerpenta and Dreamless have made this forum active once more and have got people interacting again. Banning them is too harsh I think.. so yes, I do agree with Mr.X's post
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby LaSerpentaCanta » 13 Mar 2015, 04:26

PeruvianSpice wrote:Well, it's not like "just ignore them" cause there are rules to be followed and they (or one of them) broken them...

They could dislike one of the girls, but they were just being rude and many people felt uncomfortable


I haven't broken a SINGLE RULE in this forum, I haven't harassed anybody, I haven't shared anyone's personal information, I'm not spamming anything, I'm not selling anything, I'm not sharing illegal material, I haven't insulted anybody, what have I broken? I haven't broken any single rule in this forum.

The problem is that, when I come to this forum and I speak the truth and I say Geri is a worthless sack of shit shaped like a fridge with T-Rex arms that can't sing, dance and can't even look properly on camera, it makes you seethe. Well, that's your problem. I'm not doing anything wrong.
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby Jay » 13 Mar 2015, 04:38

Dreamless was given a chance to improve! For nearly 3 weeks in fact.

Some of the things he wrote about certain members here were incredibly hurtful, and even defamatory in one person's case, so he was actually quite lucky to not be banned on the spot in the first place (and that was a possibility). I don't believe that aspect of his attitude is needed here at all; he was making some individuals feel very uncomfortable and unhappy. If he'd only been a bit of a silly/light-hearted troll, totally in terms of the Spice Girls, then he probably wouldn't have been raised up in his warnings so quickly, if at all.

1. Freedom of speech applies, but has its limits. Swearwords are fine, racist, xenophobic, homophobic and slanderous remarks are not and can lead to a warning or ban.


Just had to follow the rules there. He broke that rule more than three times, so it really was time to take action.

---------------------

LaSerpentaCanta has more chances, but seriously needs to tone his/her posts down (if they are in fact a serious member and not an out and out troll). S/he did start some threads which lead onto interesting discussions, to be fair, but posts like these:

I swear to god these women are pathetic. None of them have real careers, they are not doing anything, why can't they just regroup and make an album? Because of fucking Victoria?? lol who cares. I'd be willing to accept Floperi if they just go out there and sing. But how could they? Even when they reunited and released new music, Mel C was vomiting bile to the press about the new song. I've always suspected that they just hate each other and truly can't stand each other for more than a small period of time. Same thing with All Saints, that's why they are not together. The Spice Girls are just better at hiding their hatred for each other than the All Saints were.


Geri has no talent, not only does she not have any talent, she looks WRONG on camera. When she was with the Spice Girls, the big hair the loud mouth, the boobs, it hid everything, but as the years went by and she toned down her look I guess to reveal the "artist", there was nothing there. No charisma, no voice, no dancing, just nothing except stocky tiny Gery with her T-Rex arms. It doesn't cut it anymore. It just doesn't. Leaving the Spice Girls gave her a huge amount of leverage and publicity and power with the shedding of her image and such but that ran out, it gave her a good 10 years but that's finished. Even if she promoted the hell out of something, I doubt it would succeed.

What I don't understand is why are the other Spice Girls' careers total zilch. I don't get it. None of them were hugely talented but they all were talented enough to be able to find a niche for themselves somewhere and they haven't. That boggles my mind.


... really goes against certain rules. I'll link the topic again: viewtopic.php?f=183&t=208633

LaSerpentaCanta, if you want to stay here for the long term - read that, take it on board, alter your ways. Your above post is the final one along those lines that will be tolerated.

Edit: In fact I've just noticed that you've been given a second warning by another member of the mod team, so you actually only have one final chance.
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby daredavid » 13 Mar 2015, 04:54

You guys take the internet too seriously
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Re: I'm gonna be a bit controversial but...

Postby PeruvianSpice » 13 Mar 2015, 06:19

I find their attitude rude and unneeded, so it does bother me to come and read comments like that...
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Jay » 13 Mar 2015, 07:21

Posts moved to the mod-log. If anyone wants to discuss this further, here is the place to do it.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Jay » 13 Mar 2015, 07:56

Dreamless was a blatant troll who was beyond rude to certain members. He made some of them feel incredibly hurt, violated & even unhappy - and that was absolutely something to act on. That is one of the main reasons why there is a mod team, for the welfare of all members, what is best for the forum. Far, far more important than considering whether some people found him useful for amusement & for the activity levels of the forum. What's the point of an active forum that's also in danger of becoming a cesspit?

As for the actions taken against Dreamless: 2 warnings were issued immediately (back in February) because his comments were extreme. So after those were issued, it was last chance saloon - any further instances of completely disrespecting another member, and a ban would occur. He ended up doing just that, so he got banned. He had his chance, he made his choice. Dreamless wasn't even a new member, he signed up in 2004. He was actually flagged up in the mod section years ago, in 2009, as a potential problem member. He became one in 2015... shame for him.

-----

LaSerpentaCanta only needs to adhere to the particular rules which I have linked in this thread (and in their actual warning). I have mild hopes that this member could actually become a good contributor, considering that some of their posts have been good & without problems, and have lead onto interesting discussions. The main problem is the extreme ways you're writing about the Spice Girls at times, particularly Geri, it seems.

This forum isn't being hosted so that people are free to write completely disgusting things about anyone - even if they're a celebrity. LaSerpentaCanta, some of your posts highlight that you're absolutely doing something wrong, even if you disagree. You're writing vitriol about Geri, a celebrity I assume you don't even know personally. Remember that she's a human being, first and foremost - a human who happens to have made her way in life through the music & entertainment industry. I'm sure she is aware that people talk about her on the internet, good and bad. However what you've been writing is beyond what is considered acceptable here. She has certainly done nothing to warrant the things you've written about her on here. Just think for a moment how creepy that actually makes you look?

-----

Please, please take this on board everyone: The mod team never *wants* to ban anyone, we don't like to warn people. None of us take satisfaction from it - we do it when we have to do it. It's what we signed up for when we became moderators. Every decision is made with the view that it's for the good of the forum. A ban sometimes ends up being the only choice....
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 12:16

Sorry but this whole thing sounds too much like a bit of a dictatorship to me.

The examples of comments that gave them warning, like LaSerpentaCanta ones that you mention here. COME ON! It might not be very pleasant but it is just their opinion Jay. You might not like it, you might find even that it is rude towards any of the Spice Girls. But honestly, why the hell do you care?
It was not directed at any member, they are merely badly written opinions. Isn't opinion sharing the point of this forum in the first place?

Also, I seriously wonder what could have been said by Dreamless to certain members to attract such strong warnings and eventually get banned. People really got upset from an internet troll? Fucks sake people, get over it. It is an internet forum, not life.

This whole thing doesn't wash well with me. I also don't like the fact that my original post was taken away from the Spice Girls forum, as that was the main point of the whole LaSerpentaCanta and Dreamless activity and therefore where the opinions and comments would have engaged more members. Here, it will get lost and a conversation between myself and the hierarchy.

Not happy about this at all, Jay. I do love you, but this whole thing stinks.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby TheBiatches » 13 Mar 2015, 13:19

The things Dreamless told certain users were completely unnecessary and the ban was totally deserved. Some people think that because this is the internet they can hide behind their computers and spout venom like there's no tomorrow. The reality is that not everyone of us is as strong.

99% of what people tell me on the internet does not affect me, but there are other people who are more vulnerable to online bullying and take certain things more seriously. Don't underestimate the power of words, you really don't know what the other person might feel when you insult them for absolutely no reason.

There's been enough shit on Denden through the years to let someone like Dreamless freely go around calling people names and telling them they're lowlife freaks who need to get laid, get a life, grow up and so on.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 13:50

But aren't we also hiding behind our computers and getting people banned instead of engaging in proper actions that will hopefully affect change?

I am not saying this was done in haste or without a heavy heart. I just think that as a community - online or not - we should have dealt with this better. I am not a fan of just removing people from a place 'for the greater good'. That doesn't sit well with me, because it is obviously only the 'greater good' of a select few.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby TheBiatches » 13 Mar 2015, 14:56

So what would you do, then? Tell him to stop being such a dickhead? Like he would care.

There's annoying users and then there's trolls. What's the point in having a troll post shit around and insult people on a personal level?

I agree about LaSerpentaCanta. I mean he comes across like a bit of an twat but he's just harsh about the girls, who hasn't been at least once? But I understand 100% why Dreamless was banned.

PS: For all I know they could be the same person, but I guess the mods have checked their IPs.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby FiaSpice » 13 Mar 2015, 15:58

If somone doesn't like the rules here and how the place is run, they are free to go. Actually I think Denden is quite forgiving and relax with there rules. I've seen forum with much stickier rules and less chances to behave.

I'm glad the modmins take cyber bully/mean message to member seriously. Some people kill themself because of things like this. Some people may enjoy this kind of trash "entertainment" of people being mean/trashing members or the celebrity the post is about, but this is real life.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby do-it » 13 Mar 2015, 17:04

I think some of the threads LaSerpentaCanta has started have resulted in pretty interesting discussions, despite his rather strong way of expressing his opinion, so I don't have a problem with him.

However, it seemed like Dreamless wasn't even interested in discussing the Girls, so I don't know why he was here in the first place.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Jay » 13 Mar 2015, 21:04

Some key points because I'm on my phone:

* It's not a dictatorship. The rules are clearly laid out. Break them and a warning is issued, break them repeatedly and it results in a ban. It's the way it's always been!

* Some LaSerpentaCanta comments have gone against the "behaviour on the forum" topic by Dennis, quite extremely. It's one thing to say "I hate Geri, she can't sing and her music sucks" and another thing to write some of the things he has. It was enough to warrant a warning. It's not my personal feelings. It goes without saying that there's more important things in my life than worrying about Geri Halliwell. As a mod, I'm literally following the guidelines laid out to me. I'm doing my "job"...

* The posts Dreamless wrote are all on the first post.

* Original post was moved to here because that sort of thread is more appropriate here, not the Spice section. It's an issue with how the mods acted, so here is the best place. The Spice Girls forum is for the discussion on the Spice Girls.

Honestly I can't fathom how any of this could be seen as a bad way of dealing with things. He got a chance, was given free reign to post here for weeks before it was evident that he wouldn't change. That's more than some forums allow a troll. We're relatively lenient.

None of it is personal. I'm acting as a mod, and anyone else who signed up to be a mod here would be expected to warn and possibly have to ban members like Dreamless.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby JimmyLo » 13 Mar 2015, 21:34

Jay wrote:Some key points because I'm on my phone:

* It's not a dictatorship. The rules are clearly laid out. Break them and a warning is issued, break them repeatedly and it results in a ban. It's the way it's always been!

* Some LaSerpentaCanta comments have gone against the "behaviour on the forum" topic by Dennis, quite extremely. It's one thing to say "I hate Geri, she can't sing and her music sucks" and another thing to write some of the things he has. It was enough to warrant a warning. It's not my personal feelings. It goes without saying that there's more important things in my life than worrying about Geri Halliwell. As a mod, I'm literally following the guidelines laid out to me. I'm doing my "job"...

* The posts Dreamless wrote are all on the first post.

* Original post was moved to here because that sort of thread is more appropriate here, not the Spice section. It's an issue with how the mods acted, so here is the best place. The Spice Girls forum is for the discussion on the Spice Girls.

Honestly I can't fathom how any of this could be seen as a bad way of dealing with things. He got a chance, was given free reign to post here for weeks before it was evident that he wouldn't change. That's more than some forums allow a troll. We're relatively lenient.

None of it is personal. I'm acting as a mod, and anyone else who signed up to be a mod here would be expected to warn and possibly have to ban members like Dreamless.


Thank you, Jay. Bias aside, you handled it to the letter of the rules, and gave him plenty of time and chances to change. Dreamless deserved his fate, without question.

Honestly, reacting negatively to this just shows that you're part of the problem. Egging him on on purpose is almost just as bad, which led him into an even deeper troll pit.

I think we all just need to learn from this, including myself. I don't let this stuff get to me in my real life, so I really shouldn't let it get to me in my JimmyLo life.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 13 Mar 2015, 23:57

Sorry? Did I so something wrong here? I was just stressing my opinion on something and I still stand on it.

Since when did I become part of the problem? What problem, anyway? You mean the problem that I have with warning members because they stressed their opinion against a Spice Girl and someone didn't like it?

I now agree that Dreamless is better gone, I understand it and I take back what I said. He even sent me some PMs telling me how much he loved me. But about the other one, I do think it is unfair to warn members based on those posts. They didn't offend or attack members, those posts were about their opinions on a particular topic of discussion.
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